Pigeon Fever Study

Beginning in June of 2006, Grand Adventures Ranch and Mountain View Animal Clinic are co-sponsoring an investigational study of the efficacy of Octazone on horses diagnosed with Pigeon Fever.  Treatment will consist of seven consecutive days of rectal Octazone.  Horses will also be evaluated for diet and immune system strength.  There is no charge for this treatment.  14 days after treatment conclusion horses will be tested for presence of active pathenogen.

As we start this process I am actively looking for input from those who have experienced Pigeon Fever first hand.  My next post is an email I received from a long time customer for dog products and I will be answering her directly and here on the blog.  So if you have advise and experience to share please bring it to the discussion.  Tonight's phone call is also on Pigeon Fever - It will undoubtedly be an active topic of discussion in the coming months.

Kay

Comments

[Erin Lehman]

I have a 23 year old, normally very healthy quarter horse mare who I drove to the emergency vet last night. We suspect that she is coming down with pigeon fever, but the symptoms are odd and unfamiliar to me. She has alot of swelling in all 4 legs, her teats and underside of her stomach are about 2 inches thick with edema buildup. She has a small hole draining from the bottom of her stomach about the size of a half dollar and she has a blood shot eye with lots of eye mucus plus a fever. We did ultrasounds and only found that one pocket, we flushed and drained the pocket, put her on anti-biotics, anti-inflamatory meds, and pain killers. She is so stiff in the legs she could barely lift them to load in the trailer. We also flushed her tear ducts and started her on anti-biotic eye cream. At this time we are waiting for blood tests to confirm what exact virus she has. Is this normal for Pigeon Fever, and should I expect to see more infection pockets in the swelled area, will the swelling subside soon. What can I expect and has anyone else ever delt with this type of problem. The vet is a little baffled, so the other vets will be looking at her tomarrow as well, so far the blood tests show inflamation and stress. Which we obviously already knew! Any idea's or suggestions?

9-17-06

Hi Erin -

I am interested in where you live. We have discovered that a number of the horses that were submitted to our Pigeon Fever study actually had either C. Kutcheri (or Kutscheri) instead of Pigeon Fever (C. Pseudotuberculosis) or had both. We have had a very difficult time finding out much information about the C. Kutcheri bacterium as almost all the information available shows it to be a disease found in rodents. The horses infected with C. Kutcheri have had significant organ involvement before abscesses come to the surface. It is very good that you are having this diagnosed by culture.

The level of difficulty that your mare is fighting does not sound typical for Pigeon Fever although as it is opportunistic organism it could be one of the issues. Unfortunately, if it is Pigeon Fever, using antibiotics can actually drive it deeper internally which is why we began the octazone study. The true PF horses that we have treated have responded very quickly - all abscesses drained and the hardening of the surrounding tissue greatly dissipated within 14 days.

Where is it that you live? That may also give us some clues. You might want to start her on homeopathic Silicea 30c and Hep. Sulph 30c to assist with expelling the edema and abscessing. They can be used no matter which pathogen has hit your horse.

Please keep us updated with what you find.

Kay

[Jenny]

Our QH mare is 17 years old and she has had pigeon fever twice. She had a bad case last year, and just today we saw that she is again infected. My husband spent months last year flooding the abscesses with peroxide and rubbing antibiotic cream on the sores. He is not looking forward to more treatments such as this, but apparently there is no other option. One of her eyes does have some weeping, we are treating that with eye cream.
Her bag seems to be involved this time also. Any suggestions?

[Pam Skinner]

I live in Heber City, UT and think my horse has pigeon fever. I have a herd of 7 that live on my 5 acres with dirt lot and grass turnout. Various ages. My mare is 11 and we do natural horsemanship through the Parelli Program. I was in Pagosa in June with her. We pick up all manure in our dirt lot and she has been a very healthy horse. Can't figure out where or why she got it. Minimal flies. Have lived her 3 years. No new horses in 2 years.
I am interested in the oxtazone and the other immune drugs you mention. I have her and the other 6 horses on APF as of 3 days ago. She had a small area on her belly midline that drained a little. The first thing I noticed 2 weeks ago was alittle swelling between her front legs, then the area on her belly behind her cinch. Now a lump on her chest. She has no temperature and is eating, drinking etc. Maybe alittle lethargic. We have traveled locally, not for a week. What should I do with her and to decrease risk in other horses.
Help. Local vets have seen the disease but are not as knowledgable as I would like.
Pam

[Paula]

We have a small ranch in northern ca. and recently I noticed the blood sucking flies eating at a few of our horses. I bought some fly/gnat spray that's long lasting. I sprayed and continue to spray all the horses, Just the other day we took our tb to the vet to check out some lumps on her belly area, and one also under her jaw. Quickly with out touching her, cheking temp. jumped to the conclusion it could be pigeon fever. He didn't sound so positive and didn't say it was contagious. Is there a way I can positivley find out if it is truley pigeou fever? And as far as the other horses two have bites all over that are not infected, but you can see/feel where they had been bitten and a bit of secretion has scabed over the bite. How should I treat this, and should I also jump to the conclusion they may also be infected (one of them is my precious W.Pleasure show horse, although I do love them all) I am worried that I should find a vet that is more informed for sure. Until then any info is helpful.
Paula

[Angie Clark]

We live in central california in the foothills; had our usual dry summer. About a month ago my 14 yr old gelding started to show severe swelling in his testicle area. The vet gave him some antibiotics and other steroid type stuff thinking it possibly was an insect bite or side effects from too much acorn eating (a real bad problem here with all our horses). She said to work him but the swelling did not go away and although he eats okay and seems sound he has been very lethargic to ride. She came again and says it most likely is Pigeon Fever. She took a blood test and also sedated him to lance and drain pus from his swelled testicle area. She told us to keep his pus draining and also keep any contamination from that pus away from the other two horses, which we have been trying to do and also spray with a bleach solution wherever we think he dripped pus and spray our boots and other tools after using near him. She also said to get him on immune boosters immediately and the other horses also. One of our other horses has had lumps on his belly even from before the time this other one became so obvious; so now we think he may have had it all along too and just not effected by it very much. Just don't know; too many ifs. Can you give any further advice or recommend an immune booster? Thanks much.

[Mary]

I have my 3 horses boarded at a friend's ranch on 41 acres (they take great care of their place as well). One of their horses recently came down with pigeon fever and we think one of their other horses in the next stall over is coming down with it as well. All of the horses are rotated between their several pastures so they don't get too soured on being in just one area.

After all of the articles I've seen on this disease and with how contagious it is, why is there no vaccine for it? We vaccinate our horses regularly. I've had horses for over 40+ years and this is the first time I've ever had any cases where I've boarded....

How can we possibly disinfect 41 acres? There are cows around us as well...

HELP!

[Brad]

I am interested in the results of your study on the efficacy of Octazone on horses diagnosed with Pigeon Fever. Our 12 year old Gelding is suffering from it (lab results should be back in a day or two) and he is currently on anti-biotics, Bute and Banamine.

THANKS!

[Anne]

We're in No. California and have had an outbreak of Pigeon Fever on our ranch. The horses infected are eating normally and have good attitudes although a little weaker than normal. Our vet doesn't recommend antiobotics because of the danger of an abscess bursting internally. Banamine/Butte ok. The abscess will eventually open on it's own or it can be lanced. Once this happens the abscess is flushed out daily with a solution of iodine and distilled water. We're using a syringe without a needle to do this. Hope this helps.

[Penny]

I'm in the Grass Valley area of Northern California. I have a mare that has been diagnosed with pigeon fever, however, my vet has told me this is not contagious... after being on this site and others, I don't believe that. This first started with abcesses on both front legs, with one leg being swollen about twice the normal size. The abcesses were about the size of dimes and quarters and just above the hoof area, with one larger behind the knee. This mare has been with me just a few months, but has had a history of runny eyes, which is now a thick discharge. She had a small lump on her belly a while ago but it never abcessed. Now she has the swelling on the front of the chest and just under the chest area. The abcesses I've been treating are clearing, and the swelling in the one front leg has gone down a lot, but is still there.

What really concerns me after checking this out on the internet is that I have a young gelding who has been licking her larger abcess when I put the aluminum spray on it. He has no symptoms, and we will seperate them now that I know.

What is there available to boost her immune system? and how/where do I get it? She is in her 20's and could stand to gain some weight. After reading some things I am concerned about this going internal. I had her on antibiotics for a different problem a while ago, and then on some herbs, plus when the vet came out for the abcesses, she was put on antibiotics again. It was not until I called her about the chest swelling that I was told about pigeon fever, and told that she should not have any more antibiotics.

There has not been any bloodwork, but I'm sure after reading what is on the net that's what I'm dealing with.

I plan spraying the barn with a staight bleach, since this is where I have been treating her. Any info would be most appreciated...

[Nancy]

I take care of my friend's gelding in the Central Coast area, Goleta, CA. After Christmas in 2007, I took him out to lunge and upon checking his chest to see how warm he was I felt this huge lump and what looked like sap oozing from the lump. The lunging brought out the abcess. He wasn't lame, looked great, walked fine and his appetite was great.

The owner called the vet who lanced the abcess and diagnosed it as Pigeon Fever or Dryland Distemper. He said it is not contagious although there were a few cases at the ranch this year. I am concerned about the ranch's attitude and the vet's is that it is not contagious and doing absolutely nothing to dispose of the shavings from the barn. The vet was not going to isolate the horse. I have a 28 year old mare and this really upsets me as I learn more about the illness.

The gelding, took time to remove his own gauze from his wound. He wouldn't leave it alone.

[Darcy Fisher]

Just wanted to give you some great info on Pigeon Fever and a profound supplement that is incredible. Two weeks ago, a student of mine called me to come look at her horse. This gelding had a mass on his chest approximately 1 foot across and two foot long full of fluid, I told her it was pigeon fever and probably our first case in Az this summer. She called her vet who confirmed my diagnosis. He suggested no antibiotics and left it at that. Upon my suggestion, she put her horse on 10 drops of activated zeolite ( specifically Natural Cellular Defense) immediately. Afetr only 5 days the edema had reduced to the size of a flattened out softball, broke open and only purged 1/4 cup of drainage. It closed the next day and within three days all swelling and signs of dryland distemper were gone. For history and more info you can visit my website. On the zeolite forms website there is an interview with the biochemist, Rik Dietsch, who discusses Dryland Distemper and the use of this activated mineral. You can also view more info at http://www.animalzeolites.com We have been using the product ourselves and on all the animals at the ranch for a year and are astounded at the effects.
Just thought you'd like to know.
Darcy Fisher

[kristina]

hi
my horse is about 5 yrs of age and i noticed a lump on her side near the shoulder she has runny eyes she is very healthy and her diet is regular and she drinks water her eyes are a little glassy she seems to be normal but if i touch the lump she dont like it to much she gets mad it isnt her saddle it fits i havent called the vet yet.....i havent given her anobiodicts i thought it might of been a snake bite sence she is a pature horse i have 2 other horses and there is nothing wrong with them now i do know my horse chaquita gets into stuff she got ove a verry bad injury the past 2 yrs and i have been reacently been working with her and i am now ridding her i just need to know if this is a serious lump and that needs to be taken to the vets hands so please if you know about anything write me back

[Heather]

My 10 year old gelding has pegion fever right now. I am putting ichommal poultice on it to help bring the abcess to a head. I have been around a few horses over the years that have had it and this seems to work. After it bursts open i keep it flushed with ater and put an antibiotic ointment and fly repelent over the area. The poultice it thick and black and smells like tar but it works. every evening i wipe the poultice off put a hot pack on for a few and then reaplly.

[kelly]

can they die

[Sandy]

My mom lives in a remote area in New Mexico. So no vet is available. Her two mares got pigeon fever. Both absessed in chest area. Finally cleared up. One mare got it again. That has since cleared up but she is dragging her hind feet when she walks. She runs and doesn't appear to be in any pain. Should we be treating her with some kind of medication or will she get over this on her own.

[FirefightersMom]

We are in Redmond Oregon. My neighbor's horse just came down with it. I am caring for her now. I didn't realize till reading different sites, how nasty this is. I have two mares in foal. I wonder if I need to worry. Smokey is not real close to my horses on a daily base...

[Dawn]

My horse came down with something that felt small, flat but rough...almost like dried dirt under his belly - at about the costal margin for location. I did not think much of it and then started to think maybe it was a fungus and was going to get something for that. The next day I checked the area and my hand came away bloody! This area of roughness had been there maybe 10 days. It started with a very small area that gradually got bigger. He was not tender although in bathing him 2 days previous to the wound opening he seemed a bit crabby - not bad, just "off". He has not shown any evidence of "illness" - he remains with good appetite, no fever, alert and his friendly self. In treating the area though - it was extremely painful for him at first. After sedation he woke right up as we washed it out the first time. It has been 5 days and the grape size abscess has almost entirely closed. On days 4-5 it was much less painful for him as well. I soak 4x4s in a betadine solution and hold them over the wound to soak the area and then try to scoop the wound- it was not pleasant for him on days 1-3 - use care not to get kicked! Last night I was able to really wash the area and examine the closing wound by inserting the tip of my finger to see if more drainage would be released - but there was only a bit of blood, it is not painful any longer. I did not want it to close if there was still drainage. The area is red but non tender now. There was a second site that looked as though it would open once we discovered the first abscess about 3 inches distal to the first. It was a much smaller area and seems to have receded with the first resolving. I believe the two were connected and the one opening drained them both. There did not seem to be a thick capsule around the first.
Now the second phase of the story -
we have 23 horses on the property with an excellent fly system in the barn where 18 of the horses live. Most years we basically have no flies in the barn - this year we do have a few. (people comment on how "flieless" we are when they visit) The others are in outside paddocks & shelters. All horses have turn out to the pastures at least once a day. We now have 6 infected horses! My horse was the first to have a opened abscess. Only one other horse is ever in the pasture with him, and they are the only 2 to use that particular pasture. My horse was isolated as soon as the abscess was discovered, but the other horse has now got the "crusty" area under his belly. The other 4 horses were never in the same pasture and were never close to these two horses. The horses that have become infected do spend significant time in pasture areas though. (more than 2hrs per day) I am aware the thought is this is fly spread...none of us have control of those pesty flies!
There is a variety of reactions from the other horses.
One has a very large swelling under the chest area that was quite obvious, he had fever and acted unwell. Another horse looks a bit down, but only a small crusty area that looks as though it will open soon. The other horses look fine but as I made my rounds of the barn feeling bellys, I found the crusty areas. After seeing my own horses progression the tiny crusty area was suspicious - sure enough, 2 other horses have open abscesses. I found more last night. All these horses have been isolated from the rest now. The vet will come out later today. This will be a real challenge for removal of shavings etc. The horse with the large swelling was cultured and was reported negative last night! My vet had said they see negatives prior to open abscesses at times. Do you think we are dealing with Pigeon Fever? or something else? It seems these horses were all inoculated at about the same time as they are all showing signs one day after the other - This just seems to be a high percentage for one barn. How can we protect the others? Thanks for any info!

[Susan]

On the 29th of September 2008, my mare, 26 years & 800 lbs, old had what looked like a bee sting swelling on her belly. Larger than what she normally has had in the past. The vet happened to be out that Friday for routine shots and agreed it looked like bee or spider bite. It was not hot or soft at that time, just the size of your hand and square about 1" thick. I think the fact it was square should have been a tip off and it was so flat.

Two days later the swelling was now 14" in length and 10" in width and about 1 1/2" thick. There was now a quarter size area of skin that turned jet black. During the next week I kept it cool with water baths. Then September 6th, after hosing her with cold water the black area came loose so that I could take scissors and cut it away from the healthy skin. There was now pus coming out.

On September 7th the swelling was 19" in length and 11 1/2" wide and 3" thick. I still did not know what was the problem. However when trying to get medication on a weekend, when the vet is not available, the local feed store knew right away what was wrong.

Articles on the internet helped a lot and I just kept the opening clean and draining. Call's to my neighbors discovered 8 horses on one side and 9 on the other had all come down with Pigeon Fever.

September 8th I started Anti-biotic's and today, September 10th, my mare is no better. She ran a fever of 102.2 on Monday just for one day and was very stiff. Today she has a swelling that runs from her lower chest to about 8" from the teats. It is about 2" thick, 15" wide and hard. There is a second abscess now open about the size of a dime. Also there are 5 other lumps ranging from 1" diameter to 5" diameter allover her belly area starting to fill with pus. She is very uncomfortable in the belly area.

I have lived in the Hillsboro, Oregon area for 29 years and never heard of Pigeon Fever before.

Do horses develop an immunity to this ever??? How long will it take to run its course? I have read that it is not normally contagious, but humans can get infected from the pus if your handing it with bare hands. What symptoms do humans get??

I have really good photo's of my course of events if there is a place to post them??

Susan

[mary]

susan, hello my mare just came down with pigeon fever, any information in treatment and prevention of your other horses contacting this awful outbreak i would deeply appreciate. hope your mare came out o.k. yours is the most recent posting i could find. my vet says fly spray and wait for abcess to break. i have seen one small, bee sting like gold colored crust on two spots, after she seemed more at ease, however chest is huge. thanks so much hope your horses all made out ok. mary

[Linda Preble]

This is for Susan in Hillsboro. How is your mare doing. I think my horse has is. How long does it take to form the abcess, how long are the contagious and did you find out if people can catch it, dogs, cows, etc?? It would be nice if the vets in the Portland Metro area would get together and have an ifnormational meeting. To let horse owners know what to expect, how many horses are infected and the areas so people could be made aware of what to look for before you have it. I have been heavy spraying for flys for the last 1 1/2 mon. and my mare still got it. So much for prevention! linda

[Diana Cufrtis]

I have a 2 year old with pigeon fever. Other than training in February. she has never been off my property and is in a pasture that I have always kept horses in, and have had two other babies raised on that pasture without anyone infected with this. My vet says to do nothing, one side has burst and is draining, but I had a meat goat with CL (caseous lymphadenitis) that is caused by same bacteria (corynibacterium tuburcolosi) that we lanced and drained the thick pus (gross) that came out and then flushed it with a mixture of nolvasan and peroside (1 part nolvasan and 5 parts peroxide) it flattened and got better, so I am going to try to treat my filly with this.

[Sandy]

I have a gelding that has abseses on his legs draing first a snotty looking fluid then blood, legs swollen double the size, first one, then the other over 4 days, now swelling up into the chest witn no absesses. I was was told humans can not contact and now read we can from the pus.

1).I have been careful and was my hand with alcohol after, but can I catch this? I did not wear gloves?

2) He is licking the absesses on his legs can this cause it to go internal?

Does anyone know????

[Sandy]

I have a gelding that has abseses on his legs draing first a snotty looking fluid then blood, legs swollen double the size, first one, then the other over 4 days, now swelling up into the chest witn no absesses. I was was told humans can not contact and now read we can from the pus.

1).I have been careful and was my hand with alcohol after, but can I catch this? I did not wear gloves?

2) He is licking the absesses on his legs can this cause it to go internal?

Does anyone know????

[Renay]

Living in California I have known many horse owners that have had to deal with pigeon fever. This is the first time I have ever had it hit my horses. My oldest Morgan came down with it in September while I was out of town. The first vet said it would rupture and heal and to simply flush it out. When I got back, I was alarmed at the size of the edema pockets, how sick my horse was acting and his high fever. I called another vet who drew blood and sent it to UC Davis. My horse, though he did have a couple of external abscesses on his sheath as well as his midline, ALSO had the eternal version of this disgusting disease. Once the blood test came back as positive for internal PF, we started the horse on 16 tabs Sulfa drugs twice per day plus a compounded antibiotic called Rifampin. He was on this treatment for two and a half months. I'm happy to report he is now doing very well. His younger brother has presented with a large abscess in his chest. He is not running a fever and the abscess, though huge, should heal up without anti-biotics. I am flushing the wound with a diluted Betadine solution. It is important to take the horses' temp every day to make sure he is not running a high fever. High fever can mean INTERNAL abscesses. Though rare, you don't want to take the chance. Internal pigeon fever can be fatal.

It is wise to wear rubber gloves when dealing with PF. I have never heard of a human contracting the disease and don't think it happens. I've read that it affects horses and sheep pretty much exclusively, but wearing disposable gloves MAY help to keep the disease spreading from horse to horse. The vets I have spoken with do NOT encourage anti biotic use unless the rare case of the disease forming internal abscesses. Flushing the wound for most cases is adequate.

I hope this helps. It is a long winded disease that is exhausting to treat...but, the outcome is usually very good.

[Shelley]

My nine year old gelding has pigeon fever. He lives with two other horses on ten acres. I can only separate him into an ajoining paddock. He has a huge absess in his chest. The veterinarian lanced it and cleaned it up after it ripened. It seems like there may be more pockets near the draining one. The flies have been worse the last few years. I use long lasting spray several times a week but am looking at other methods of fly control. Any comments on Solitude? Or any other methods?