Pigeon Fever Study

Beginning in June of 2006, Grand Adventures Ranch and Mountain View Animal Clinic are co-sponsoring an investigational study of the efficacy of Octazone on horses diagnosed with Pigeon Fever.  Treatment will consist of seven consecutive days of rectal Octazone.  Horses will also be evaluated for diet and immune system strength.  There is no charge for this treatment.  14 days after treatment conclusion horses will be tested for presence of active pathenogen.

As we start this process I am actively looking for input from those who have experienced Pigeon Fever first hand.  My next post is an email I received from a long time customer for dog products and I will be answering her directly and here on the blog.  So if you have advise and experience to share please bring it to the discussion.  Tonight's phone call is also on Pigeon Fever - It will undoubtedly be an active topic of discussion in the coming months.

Kay

Comments

[Erin Lehman]

I have a 23 year old, normally very healthy quarter horse mare who I drove to the emergency vet last night. We suspect that she is coming down with pigeon fever, but the symptoms are odd and unfamiliar to me. She has alot of swelling in all 4 legs, her teats and underside of her stomach are about 2 inches thick with edema buildup. She has a small hole draining from the bottom of her stomach about the size of a half dollar and she has a blood shot eye with lots of eye mucus plus a fever. We did ultrasounds and only found that one pocket, we flushed and drained the pocket, put her on anti-biotics, anti-inflamatory meds, and pain killers. She is so stiff in the legs she could barely lift them to load in the trailer. We also flushed her tear ducts and started her on anti-biotic eye cream. At this time we are waiting for blood tests to confirm what exact virus she has. Is this normal for Pigeon Fever, and should I expect to see more infection pockets in the swelled area, will the swelling subside soon. What can I expect and has anyone else ever delt with this type of problem. The vet is a little baffled, so the other vets will be looking at her tomarrow as well, so far the blood tests show inflamation and stress. Which we obviously already knew! Any idea's or suggestions?

9-17-06

Hi Erin -

I am interested in where you live. We have discovered that a number of the horses that were submitted to our Pigeon Fever study actually had either C. Kutcheri (or Kutscheri) instead of Pigeon Fever (C. Pseudotuberculosis) or had both. We have had a very difficult time finding out much information about the C. Kutcheri bacterium as almost all the information available shows it to be a disease found in rodents. The horses infected with C. Kutcheri have had significant organ involvement before abscesses come to the surface. It is very good that you are having this diagnosed by culture.

The level of difficulty that your mare is fighting does not sound typical for Pigeon Fever although as it is opportunistic organism it could be one of the issues. Unfortunately, if it is Pigeon Fever, using antibiotics can actually drive it deeper internally which is why we began the octazone study. The true PF horses that we have treated have responded very quickly - all abscesses drained and the hardening of the surrounding tissue greatly dissipated within 14 days.

Where is it that you live? That may also give us some clues. You might want to start her on homeopathic Silicea 30c and Hep. Sulph 30c to assist with expelling the edema and abscessing. They can be used no matter which pathogen has hit your horse.

Please keep us updated with what you find.

Kay

[Jenny]

Our QH mare is 17 years old and she has had pigeon fever twice. She had a bad case last year, and just today we saw that she is again infected. My husband spent months last year flooding the abscesses with peroxide and rubbing antibiotic cream on the sores. He is not looking forward to more treatments such as this, but apparently there is no other option. One of her eyes does have some weeping, we are treating that with eye cream.
Her bag seems to be involved this time also. Any suggestions?

[Pam Skinner]

I live in Heber City, UT and think my horse has pigeon fever. I have a herd of 7 that live on my 5 acres with dirt lot and grass turnout. Various ages. My mare is 11 and we do natural horsemanship through the Parelli Program. I was in Pagosa in June with her. We pick up all manure in our dirt lot and she has been a very healthy horse. Can't figure out where or why she got it. Minimal flies. Have lived her 3 years. No new horses in 2 years.
I am interested in the oxtazone and the other immune drugs you mention. I have her and the other 6 horses on APF as of 3 days ago. She had a small area on her belly midline that drained a little. The first thing I noticed 2 weeks ago was alittle swelling between her front legs, then the area on her belly behind her cinch. Now a lump on her chest. She has no temperature and is eating, drinking etc. Maybe alittle lethargic. We have traveled locally, not for a week. What should I do with her and to decrease risk in other horses.
Help. Local vets have seen the disease but are not as knowledgable as I would like.
Pam

[Paula]

We have a small ranch in northern ca. and recently I noticed the blood sucking flies eating at a few of our horses. I bought some fly/gnat spray that's long lasting. I sprayed and continue to spray all the horses, Just the other day we took our tb to the vet to check out some lumps on her belly area, and one also under her jaw. Quickly with out touching her, cheking temp. jumped to the conclusion it could be pigeon fever. He didn't sound so positive and didn't say it was contagious. Is there a way I can positivley find out if it is truley pigeou fever? And as far as the other horses two have bites all over that are not infected, but you can see/feel where they had been bitten and a bit of secretion has scabed over the bite. How should I treat this, and should I also jump to the conclusion they may also be infected (one of them is my precious W.Pleasure show horse, although I do love them all) I am worried that I should find a vet that is more informed for sure. Until then any info is helpful.
Paula

[Angie Clark]

We live in central california in the foothills; had our usual dry summer. About a month ago my 14 yr old gelding started to show severe swelling in his testicle area. The vet gave him some antibiotics and other steroid type stuff thinking it possibly was an insect bite or side effects from too much acorn eating (a real bad problem here with all our horses). She said to work him but the swelling did not go away and although he eats okay and seems sound he has been very lethargic to ride. She came again and says it most likely is Pigeon Fever. She took a blood test and also sedated him to lance and drain pus from his swelled testicle area. She told us to keep his pus draining and also keep any contamination from that pus away from the other two horses, which we have been trying to do and also spray with a bleach solution wherever we think he dripped pus and spray our boots and other tools after using near him. She also said to get him on immune boosters immediately and the other horses also. One of our other horses has had lumps on his belly even from before the time this other one became so obvious; so now we think he may have had it all along too and just not effected by it very much. Just don't know; too many ifs. Can you give any further advice or recommend an immune booster? Thanks much.

[Mary]

I have my 3 horses boarded at a friend's ranch on 41 acres (they take great care of their place as well). One of their horses recently came down with pigeon fever and we think one of their other horses in the next stall over is coming down with it as well. All of the horses are rotated between their several pastures so they don't get too soured on being in just one area.

After all of the articles I've seen on this disease and with how contagious it is, why is there no vaccine for it? We vaccinate our horses regularly. I've had horses for over 40+ years and this is the first time I've ever had any cases where I've boarded....

How can we possibly disinfect 41 acres? There are cows around us as well...

HELP!

[Brad]

I am interested in the results of your study on the efficacy of Octazone on horses diagnosed with Pigeon Fever. Our 12 year old Gelding is suffering from it (lab results should be back in a day or two) and he is currently on anti-biotics, Bute and Banamine.

THANKS!

[Anne]

We're in No. California and have had an outbreak of Pigeon Fever on our ranch. The horses infected are eating normally and have good attitudes although a little weaker than normal. Our vet doesn't recommend antiobotics because of the danger of an abscess bursting internally. Banamine/Butte ok. The abscess will eventually open on it's own or it can be lanced. Once this happens the abscess is flushed out daily with a solution of iodine and distilled water. We're using a syringe without a needle to do this. Hope this helps.

[Penny]

I'm in the Grass Valley area of Northern California. I have a mare that has been diagnosed with pigeon fever, however, my vet has told me this is not contagious... after being on this site and others, I don't believe that. This first started with abcesses on both front legs, with one leg being swollen about twice the normal size. The abcesses were about the size of dimes and quarters and just above the hoof area, with one larger behind the knee. This mare has been with me just a few months, but has had a history of runny eyes, which is now a thick discharge. She had a small lump on her belly a while ago but it never abcessed. Now she has the swelling on the front of the chest and just under the chest area. The abcesses I've been treating are clearing, and the swelling in the one front leg has gone down a lot, but is still there.

What really concerns me after checking this out on the internet is that I have a young gelding who has been licking her larger abcess when I put the aluminum spray on it. He has no symptoms, and we will seperate them now that I know.

What is there available to boost her immune system? and how/where do I get it? She is in her 20's and could stand to gain some weight. After reading some things I am concerned about this going internal. I had her on antibiotics for a different problem a while ago, and then on some herbs, plus when the vet came out for the abcesses, she was put on antibiotics again. It was not until I called her about the chest swelling that I was told about pigeon fever, and told that she should not have any more antibiotics.

There has not been any bloodwork, but I'm sure after reading what is on the net that's what I'm dealing with.

I plan spraying the barn with a staight bleach, since this is where I have been treating her. Any info would be most appreciated...

[Nancy]

I take care of my friend's gelding in the Central Coast area, Goleta, CA. After Christmas in 2007, I took him out to lunge and upon checking his chest to see how warm he was I felt this huge lump and what looked like sap oozing from the lump. The lunging brought out the abcess. He wasn't lame, looked great, walked fine and his appetite was great.

The owner called the vet who lanced the abcess and diagnosed it as Pigeon Fever or Dryland Distemper. He said it is not contagious although there were a few cases at the ranch this year. I am concerned about the ranch's attitude and the vet's is that it is not contagious and doing absolutely nothing to dispose of the shavings from the barn. The vet was not going to isolate the horse. I have a 28 year old mare and this really upsets me as I learn more about the illness.

The gelding, took time to remove his own gauze from his wound. He wouldn't leave it alone.

[Darcy Fisher]

Just wanted to give you some great info on Pigeon Fever and a profound supplement that is incredible. Two weeks ago, a student of mine called me to come look at her horse. This gelding had a mass on his chest approximately 1 foot across and two foot long full of fluid, I told her it was pigeon fever and probably our first case in Az this summer. She called her vet who confirmed my diagnosis. He suggested no antibiotics and left it at that. Upon my suggestion, she put her horse on 10 drops of activated zeolite ( specifically Natural Cellular Defense) immediately. Afetr only 5 days the edema had reduced to the size of a flattened out softball, broke open and only purged 1/4 cup of drainage. It closed the next day and within three days all swelling and signs of dryland distemper were gone. For history and more info you can visit my website. On the zeolite forms website there is an interview with the biochemist, Rik Dietsch, who discusses Dryland Distemper and the use of this activated mineral. You can also view more info at http://www.animalzeolites.com We have been using the product ourselves and on all the animals at the ranch for a year and are astounded at the effects.
Just thought you'd like to know.
Darcy Fisher

[kristina]

hi
my horse is about 5 yrs of age and i noticed a lump on her side near the shoulder she has runny eyes she is very healthy and her diet is regular and she drinks water her eyes are a little glassy she seems to be normal but if i touch the lump she dont like it to much she gets mad it isnt her saddle it fits i havent called the vet yet.....i havent given her anobiodicts i thought it might of been a snake bite sence she is a pature horse i have 2 other horses and there is nothing wrong with them now i do know my horse chaquita gets into stuff she got ove a verry bad injury the past 2 yrs and i have been reacently been working with her and i am now ridding her i just need to know if this is a serious lump and that needs to be taken to the vets hands so please if you know about anything write me back

[Heather]

My 10 year old gelding has pegion fever right now. I am putting ichommal poultice on it to help bring the abcess to a head. I have been around a few horses over the years that have had it and this seems to work. After it bursts open i keep it flushed with ater and put an antibiotic ointment and fly repelent over the area. The poultice it thick and black and smells like tar but it works. every evening i wipe the poultice off put a hot pack on for a few and then reaplly.

[kelly]

can they die

[Sandy]

My mom lives in a remote area in New Mexico. So no vet is available. Her two mares got pigeon fever. Both absessed in chest area. Finally cleared up. One mare got it again. That has since cleared up but she is dragging her hind feet when she walks. She runs and doesn't appear to be in any pain. Should we be treating her with some kind of medication or will she get over this on her own.